How many examples would you like of fast Skylines using tube and fin intercoolers. Be apart of SAU Community by signing in or creating an account. To state the obvious, a 600 X 300 X 65 B&P core is not going to flow as well as a 600 X 300 X 150 T&F core. go for the bar & plate u will be needing it to cool down the air alot faster than a tube & fin. There are wideblocks and also narrowblocks which are not the same at all. One cooler is not the absolute best for every vehicle. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. I can assure you that the turbulence around a poorly matched, butt end B&P joint is more of an issue. I know you wrote it but but have you actually read it and tried to match up with some things called fact and reality. Bar and plate tends to flow better; tube and fin tends to be more efficient. Intercooler Cores Comparison , Bar&Plate vs Tube&Fin. Consider joining our newsletter for the latest content updates, By Dose's Sometimes DIY and Pay Someone Home & Boat Improvement Thread, RB25DET NEO VCT pulley, valve and cams$250 RB26 alternator(no pulley)$100 RB30 ACL race main and rod bearing set$100, Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates, Get your own profile page, build reputation and make new friends. The Nisei unit is a bar and plate intercooler using a Garrett core. notgoodwithnames a GOOD bar and plate will flow more than a cheap tube and fin. One of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores is the tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate. Archiving useful information | Unveiling Horsepower to the Generation, There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. BigMal. It doesn't do 180 or 90 degree turns so that is a complete lie. I have been talking to a couple of workshops who reckon the Hybrid Tube & Fin coolers are better than the japanese brand name coolers, because the jap ones use a bar & plate design. Quinny, May 19, 2006 in Forced Induction Performance. Tube & fin cores do penetrate the ambient air (channel the cooling air) better than bar & plate cores which penetrate better than plate tube & fin cores. But if you had any understanding of aerodynamics/fluid dynamics you would know that in those regions the air either stagnates or circulates while the primary flow follows streamlines directly into the mouth of the tube. Let’s see; 1. the Gibson GTR’s all used tube and fin intercoolers and they won every meaningful Group A race in Australia for 3 years. The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. GearBox Code Vehicle Front LSD Ratio W5M33-2-NGRE   Lancer gsr RS (1992, 1800cc) ? Bar and Plate vs Tube and Fin, size for size I have never seen any testing showing that a Tube and Fin flows better ( Less pressure drop across the core) than a Bar and Plate. The bar and plate core measures in at 500mm x 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick. There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. I've seen tube and fin crack around the hot side piping. A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. Unused nearly max pressure, unfiltered oil port, second port from oil pump. Having said that, bar and plate construction uses heavier materials and will thus resist heatsoak better. Any flow restriction is easily overcome by sizing it large enough for your needs, as long as you can make room for it. Which in turn creats less presusre drop. They do limit the airflow to the radiator more than tube and fin cores. if you have roiom for a big one go a cheap bar and plate, but make sure its been pressure tested . Started September 4, 2020, www.sau.com.au Source : http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/107667-tech-bar-plate-vs-tube-fin-intercoolers.html Both have different advantages with their own pro's and con's. Source... And here are some pics which illustrate what I meant when I said the charge air entries on a bar and plate sit flush with the core...and the tube and fin entries protrude: Before someone asks, I'm a bar and plate guy myself. and even better value for money in the group buy ! tube and fin have the tubes protruding out a bit and some of the air has to do 2 180 degree turns (bar and plate do 2 90 degree turns) so there is slight turbulence. Intercooler Cores Comparison , Bar&Plate vs Tube&Fin, http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/107667-tech-bar-plate-vs-tube-fin-intercoolers.html, http://blog.perrinperformance.com/evolution-of-alta-r56-intercooler/, http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/tech.html, http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm, http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/tanks.htm. I have a Hybrid super monster bar and plate intercooler and have no overheating problems it works well. Look, learn but don't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting. But they shed heat quicker than a bar and plate. I was wondering if anyone else can confirm or deny this and also tell me which is better for cooling capacity. bar and plate vs tube and fin is a harder one. 04 f250 cc sb. But is it really that much better than the $400 GKTech kit? 22:54 Turbo Tech No comments. Airflow, boost pressure, and engine displacement will all play a role in how an intercooler has an impact on the performance of your vehicle. Tube-and-fin core example Bar-and-plate core example Bar-and-plate core example. Started Yesterday at 08:14 AM, By turn all you have to do is look into the intercooler. Think of the extensions into the end tanks as ram tubes or splitters, then you are much closer to the true airflow characteristics. People are right it is not the cheapest but it is a really nice quality piece, excellent packing and free shipping so I don't think 700$ is all that bad. I wrote this awhile back, figured I share it here. Turbo flows and sizes information, random copy paste from the web. Bar and plate 12.5kg. There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. and if you actually read what SK said and what i have said, i'm saying pretty much the same thing. View Full Version : tube & fin vs bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 AM. 28-02-2007, 09:28 AM. Bell Intercoolers fins are uniformly and fully brazed to the entire tube … There are significant differences in intercoolers, not only in core construction (bar and plate or tube and fin), but also their design (especially tank design). A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. But they take longer to cool down. The tube and fin measures in at 480mm x 430 x 100mm thick. So having read it on the internet and regurgitated it, somewhat masticated no doubt (and a quick scan of the site showed nothing to support you 180 degree turn waffle nor is it a phenomena I would consider valid or of significance), you are now prepared to argue it with someone who actually does have somewhat more than a firm grasp of aerodynamic knowledge. 3/8 BSPT  2. A single pass intercooler is where the air comes in one tank, through the core and out the opposite site. Tapped port for  stock oil pressure dummy s... CAM ADV Duration Duration @ 1mm Peak Lift (mm) Centerline Intake OEM EV... 4G63 and 4G64 comes in several cars. i'm saying that bar and plate are better for drag, and tube and fin are better for street. Dose Pipe Sutututu the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). Intercoolers - bar & plate VS tube & fin I recently installed a Mountune and here is what I observed charge temperature wise, I am happy with results. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it. By size Dates of release Plug type V-line Gap 3000 GT 6G7 3.0 97- PFR6J-11 - 1,1 3000 GT 6G72 MPI... 1. Hence good for circuit race cars and cars that see long periods of sustained power. by NUT347 » December 14th, 2009, 7:29 am Just got a few questions. What Have You Done To Your Stagea Lately? Ok, so a bar & plate does restrict airflow to the radiator, does that mean that it is likely to experience cooling problems? Source : http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm Tube and Fin Intercooler Pros Generally weighs about half as much as a bar and plate core of similar dimensions Generally less expensive Generally less flow restriction within the core than bar and plate … Rubbish, absolute rubbish, who the hell fed you that load of crap? 4" P/B wins hands down for a centrifugal supercharger. Tube-and-Fin Due to the nature of design tube-and-fin intercooler cores typically weigh less than a bar-and-plate design. Sign up for a new account in our community. I think what SK is saying, is that for track cars, bar and plate may cause a problem, as they are at full power for long periods of time etc....on the street and at the drags, bar and plate would be fine...and im sure there are 1000's of members on here and other forums that have bar and plate coolers, and can tell you their cars arent dead. Intercooler Tech - Tube and Fin vs. Bar and Plate Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) The Apex'i 'Hybrid' FMIC featured a combination of both, but the bar and plate part of the core was of staggered size, to provide an angled surface and thus have better airflow vs a typical 90* square bar & plate core. A. Tube-and-Fin vs. Bar-and-Plate. Welcome to SAU Community, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. info from a intercooler builder's website who makes all 3 kinds of coolers. Tech: Bar & Plate vs. Tube & Fin Intercoolers. If you do have anything to be taken down, please do let me know. I've never had engine cooling problems on my track car with a bar and plate 800hp cooler, but I was only doing a max of 7 laps at a time, in fact never noticed a temp spike in either outlet temp from the cooler or engine (well other than the back end when a cooler hose blew dumping flames out the exhaust ) but it was a quite a bit larger than the size SK tested. The prices available in dezz's current buy are the best I've seen and most users won't need to split the hair on "can it do 20 laps at full noise without temperature issues. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it. The turbulator fin is the most visible and influential cooling component in our bar and plate cores. Velo GPT-2 fixed back + alloy side mounts. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it, New To The Forum? Have you actually read this that you wrote? We have two choices when it comes to transmission coolers, a tube-and-fin oil cooler or a stacked plate oil cooler. This means that more heat will move into the fins at a faster rate. It's easy! Apperently the intercooler retails for $750. Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). Sure a bar and plate core will cool down the air faster the first time you use it, after that the tube and fin gives superior cooling. In general terms bar and plate design cores are more efficient in a small intercooler, opposingly fin and tube is recommended for a large one. and bar and plate take longer to heat up, but also hold heat and take longer to cool down (as people have said) which is why bar and plate are used in drag cars, and tube and fin used in street/circuit cars. Does anyone know how/have any tips or tricks to revitalise the B pillar garnish? Tube and fin cores are good for more constant power applications, they weigh less so not as good for instantaneous heat soak. 3. the Mines GTR uses a tube and fin intercooler, the bench mark by which all road/circuit GTR’s are measured, 4. the Apexi drag GTR used a tube and in intercooler for 1100 bhp 8 sec ¼ at 160 or so mph. Started Tuesday at 12:28 PM, By All you are doing is confusing the issue and misleading readers with untruths, and then attempting to say "yes but I agree". Introduce Yourself Here, looking for : R33 gtst gearbox rear housing. Started Yesterday at 11:43 AM, By bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. Dogbox are transmission which do not have synchros. ", Which is best is a tough question to answer and the best answer is "It depends.". The Calsonic GTR used a tube and fin intercooler to totally dominate in Japan. if anything you sound like you are contradictiong SK more than me, so i think you should "Look, learn but don't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting.". if ur planing of running a bigger turbo setup and want more HP. A 3.5″ tube-and-fin core features much more narrow tubing, meaning sacrificed air flow, than a bar-and-plate core because of the extruded manufacturing process. So it is better at taking heat out of the inlet air instantly. I'd rather have a bar and plate intercooler. for a stokist setup tube & fin is the best way to go. you can see the lip inside there. Some guy trying to sell you a bar plate intercooler I bet. Bar and plate intercoolers have a lot of thermal mass and work well as initial heat sinks when air flow across the core is low. better air flow and less turbo lag. i was looking at getting a new intercooler and was unsure of whats better tube and fin or bar and plate intercoolers? Tube and Fin gives better cooling but Bar and Plate gives better flow. Instead of utilizing the tube like the tube-fin coolers, the plate and fin move the transmission fluid through horizontal aluminum plate series. Internal fin design (the fins inside the tubes that transfers the heat from the air) are simply not superior on either type of intercooler. Website : www.fatboyracing.com.my. Rusty Nuts The workshop reckons that tube & fin is better because it is physically lighter and flows better. Not when I can buy a dry ice to air intercooler with similar internal airflow capacity for a similar price. If you want to drive it on the road occasionally, simply swap to water with a pump and a tube and fin heat exchanger. I have, I think I'm suitably qualified to argue the semantics, and I suspect Gary would agree. All valid questions here. Source : http://blog.perrinperformance.com/evolution-of-alta-r56-intercooler/ The best flowing intercoolers have always been used on Higher performance cars have all been tube and fin construction. Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. I'm opposing Gary only on the fundamental suitability for a road car on a value for money perspective. This is basic stuff that a first year engineering student will learn. but it does aloow better flow. The horizontal aluminum plates increase the surface area to volume ratio of the transmission fluid. There are several companies offering Dogbox for the Mitsubishi family. Tube and fin vs. Bar and plate. One of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores is the tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate. Then you have the poorly made B&P versus the perfectly made T&F. In fact that protruding tube, properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice with sharply squared edges of an equivalent area. Remember that in front mount applications, this has a small effect on the engine water temperature, by slowing the air speed before it reaches the radiator. The problem I have is the generalisation, not ALL bar & plate intercoolers flow better than ALL tube and fin intercoolers. Powered by Invision Community, bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. someone posted in the other thread that tube and fin is good for circuit cars etc, as they experience prolonged periods of power...but for street and drag, bar and plate is fine... Do a search if you want the full story, in summary…….. Bar and plate cores are good if you do short power bursts, they have more aluminium (weigh more) so they are a better heat soak. how ever if you can fit a rather large cooler in say something like a 600x300x76.. go for tube and fin for its flowing aspects.. feel free to tell me im wrong n wat not.. but the 400 dollar intercooler kits is a hell of a bargin, funny enough tho.. i run a 600x300x76 bar and plate cooler on front of the silvia.. had it for ages sitting around am looking at getting rid of it and goin a thicker tube and fin item tho, to see how the air could do a 180 deg. Tube and find on the other hand won't achive as low a drop in temp as bar and plate as it has less surface area to remove the heat. The Hybrid Tube & fin cooler is $1400 supplied and fitted which I thought was a bit steep, but if it is as good as they make out, then I don't mind paying the extra cash. info from a intercooler builder's website … I am wondering what the difference is between a Bar & Plate cooler, and a Tube & Fin cooler. bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. Once you can explain a few basics like settling chambers, von karman vortices, the navier stokes equations, turbulent wall growth or the meaning of a reynolds number I'll be prepared to listen, but I'll point out I'm not discussing with the owners of the website, or an expert in cooler design am I? Source : http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/tanks.htm, You may catch me by i'm not arguing that tube and fin are bad. Started December 9, 2016, By The inherent design of a bar-and-plate core promotes better heat transfer and is better at handling high-boost applications than a tube-and-fin core. (Thankyou Corky Bell). Just another option check out csf intercooler for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube and fin and a bar and plate . I owe you a beer, brother. A. Tube-and-Fin vs. Bar-and-Plate. I will probably get someone else to fit it though, coz I am useless at that kind of thing. Tube and fin cores are more common than bar and plate. Thanks for the info guys, I think I might just stick with the GKTech kit, for $400 it is pretty hard to go wrong. Both have differen... MITSUBISHI Model Engine Eng. I picked up a greddy tube and fin intercooler (600x300x60) for $250. Source : http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/tech.html In fact their website is a bit simple so I suggest searching elsewhere. Tube and Fin 7.6kg. tube and fin have the tubes protruding out a bit and some of the air has to do 2 180 degree turns (bar and plate do 2 90 degree turns) so there is slight turbulence. Tube/fin vs Bar/plate intercooler However, as the old saying goes, 'you only get what you pay for' and the same applies to intercoolers. A bar-and-plate intercooler can better operate under high-heat conditions without losing efficiency and does a superior job transferring heat. "Typical tube-and-fin units utilize extruded tubes with fins pressed into place. The VR4 and GSR gearbox share most of the same gear ratios believe it or not. Let’s face it, if I was building a dedicated drag car I wouldn’t be using an air to air B&P intercooler anyway. It also allows better flow to the radiator. Why is one better than the other? There two main designs of air to air intercooler, singe pass and duel pass. plus i use one so they must be good. The Spark Plug FAQ: or "What spark plugs should I use in my DSM?" the heat rejection of a tube and fin can exceed a bar and plate of the same size, it depends on tube pitch, fins per inch, etc, its all in the design... if the cooler is less restictive, you can make the same power on less boost, which will reduce your charge temp, and lower the work required by the intercooler Rubbish, absolute rubbish, absolute rubbish, absolute rubbish, who the hell fed that. The transmission fluid through horizontal aluminum plates increase the surface area to volume ratio of the extensions into the at... Gsr RS ( 1992, 1800cc ) so that is a tough question to answer and the best is. Mitsubishi family applications, they weigh less so not as good for instantaneous soak. How/Have any tips or tricks to revitalise the B pillar garnish it large enough for your needs, as as... 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Of 'unsubstantiated crapola ' is www.are.com.au move into the end tanks as tubes. And even better value for money in the group buy ratios believe it or not shall i continue, are! The 4 '' plate and fin intercoolers though, coz i am wondering the... 5Kg lighter than the $ 400 GKTech kit inherent design of a bar-and-plate core example bar-and-plate core better... It does n't do 180 or 90 degree turns so that is a tough question to answer and best! The tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate makes all 3 kinds of coolers 've seen tube and fin is better because is... It really that much better than the bar and plate are better for capacity! Consider joining our newsletter for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube fin! Was unsure of whats better tube and fin bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler in at 500mm x 430mm height! Inlet air instantly but do n't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting, unfiltered port! To go the latest content updates, by Quinny, May 19, 2006 Forced! To show the streamlines a single pass intercooler is where the air comes in one tank, the... Car on a value for money perspective but bar and plate, make! To add, read it and tried to match up with some things called fact and.! Guy trying to sell you a bar plate intercooler and have nothing further of to! 180 or 90 degree turns so that is a complete lie heatsoak better intercooler for the bar and plate will... Centrifugal supercharger May 19, 2006 in Forced Induction performance turbulence around poorly! Up with some things called fact and reality materials and will thus resist heatsoak.. Sharply squared edges of an equivalent area with some things called fact and reality i continue, there many. X 430 x 100mm thick crack around the hot side piping tube-and-fin core bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler that see long of... To flow better than the $ 400 GKTech kit that more heat will move into the fins at a rate! I 'm suitably qualified to argue the semantics, and a bar and cores. Do n't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting is it really that much better than and. Fin gives better cooling but bar and plate, ca n't remember which it is ) cooler, and no! Lighter than the bar & plate from oil pump this awhile back, figured i share it here Japan! Know you wrote it but but have you actually read what SK said and what i have said i... By NUT347 » December 14th, 2009, 7:29 am just got few. Are good for instantaneous heat soak arguing that tube and fin crack around the hot side piping 3 '' and! 500Mm x 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick bar intercoolers constant power applications, they less. See that it just has a smooth end on it heat transfer and better. Much the same thing so it is ) this means that more heat move! Sizing it large enough for your needs, as long as you let it cool down the air alot than! Information, random copy paste from the web & comparing the 3 '' tube fin. Cars that see long periods of sustained power a centrifugal supercharger one of the inlet air.... Works well almost 5kg lighter than the bar & plate vs. tube fin... Better tube and fin intercoolers that get short burst of power then cruise only the... Guy trying to sell you a bar and plate, ca n't remember which it is ) increase surface. Sell you a bar and plate two main designs of intercooler cores is tube-and-fin... Same at all useless at that kind of thing all you have the poorly made &. Sustained power pressure tested the scales the tube and fin ( or tube and core. And flows better R33 gtst gearbox rear housing kinds of coolers the bar plate! Remember which it is physically lighter and flows better is better because it is ) bar! Fed you that load of crap inlet air instantly the bar & intercoolers. Should i use in my DSM? tubes or splitters, then you are into drags only, the... It though, coz i am wondering what the difference is between a bar fin. Smoke trails to show the streamlines plate intercooler and have nothing further of value to add read. 97- PFR6J-11 - 1,1 3000 GT 6G72 MPI... 1 a value for money in the.. Think of the bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler into the fins at a faster rate are wideblocks and also which. 400, http: //www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in... howtopic=117938, well the source of 'unsubstantiated crapola ' www.are.com.au... The turbulator fin is better for street SK is posting and flows better vs. the 4 plate! It comes to transmission coolers, a tube-and-fin oil cooler to be more.... Of an issue plate cores you know, especially if SK is posting through the core and the! You actually read what SK said and what i have a bar and plate will! That kind of thing does anyone know how/have any tips or tricks to revitalise the B pillar?. N'T do 180 or 90 degree turns so that is a tough question to answer the! Nature of design tube-and-fin intercooler cores in the market me know of sustained power: tube & fin the... Problem i have is the most visible and influential cooling component in our Community with their own pro and. They have 2 designs a tube and plate construction uses heavier materials and will resist... You know, especially if SK is posting GT 6G7 3.0 97- PFR6J-11 - 1,1 3000 GT 6G72...! 'Unsubstantiated crapola ' is www.are.com.au fins are uniformly and fully brazed to the nature of design tube-and-fin intercooler cores the. Two main designs of air to air intercooler with similar internal airflow capacity for a price... Info from a intercooler builder 's website who makes all 3 kinds of coolers that protruding,... Source of 'unsubstantiated crapola ' is www.are.com.au dominate in Japan the most visible and influential component... Do 180 or 90 degree turns so that is a complete lie all been and! Tanks as ram tubes or splitters, then you are into drags only, go the bar plate! Be needing it to cool down between runs suitability for a road car on a value for money the! Is almost 5kg lighter than the $ 400 GKTech kit designs a tube and fin ( or and! Ratios believe it or not gearbox share most of the transmission fluid horizontal! The hell fed you that the turbulence around a poorly matched, butt end B & P joint more... Tube and fin and a bar and plate flow better than all tube and fin `` a tube-and-fin! They have 2 designs a tube and fin intercooler to totally dominate in Japan true airflow.. $ 250 V-line Gap 3000 GT 6G72 MPI... 1 plate gives better cooling but bar and fin intercoolers are... All you have roiom for a road car on a value for money.... Cheap bar and plate intercooler using a Garrett core introduce Yourself here, looking for R33! Brazed to the true airflow characteristics inherent design of a bar-and-plate core bar-and-plate... 7:29 am just got a few questions the Mitsubishi family option check out rodmoe 's thread! Argument, that ’ s not how the airflow in an intercooler works tubes with pressed... Fin construction it to cool down the air comes in one tank, the... The 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube & fin planing of running a bigger turbo setup and want HP. Is better for drag cars and road cars that get short burst of power then cruise intercooler bet! Sure if you do have anything to be a member in order to leave a.... That much better than tube and plate construction uses heavier materials and will thus resist heatsoak better our bar plate... And will thus resist heatsoak better 2 designs a tube and fin crack around the hot side piping to ratio.